Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Wrightwood, California, Earth
Posts: 14

SG-1: Humanists fighting alien antichrists?

I've been reading up lately on this whole Left Behind phenomenon, and it occurred to me that SG-1 could be interpreted as an oblique criticism of the whole "antichrist" myth underlying these novels' popularity.

After all, the cult of the antichrist or "beast" described in Revelation 13 has a Goa'uld-like feel to it, and the series showed an antichrist-like Goa'uld living on Earth named Seth, whom Carter killed with a Goa'uld palm weapon.

Only the Stargate Commandos, unlike the right-wing religious nuts called the Tribulation Force in the Left Behind novels, display a Humanistic outlook and are fighting the false gods without the hope of a deus ex machina to rescue them in the end. I find their battle worthier than the one portrayed in Jenkins and LaHaye's foolish Bible prophecy novels.

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Registered: Jul 2002
Location: In the woods(and playing banjo)
Posts: 217

I might have no idea of what I'm talking about here, but... Is that why we'll never face the Goa'uld "Jahve"? Or is it just because the american extreme rightwing christians would kill of the show if they did do an episode on that theme.
"Jahve" would've made a nice evil false god like Aphopis. A guy that nukes cities and drown valley with their inhabitants would have made a great evil goa'uld...

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Registered: Jul 2002
Location:
Posts: 22

You know I understoof when they took Goa'uld from dead religions and past occurences (like Yu). But they use Nirti who is part of a still thriving religion (hinduism)...... but of course they could never have a Goa'uld based on a christian figure.

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Posts: 1416

Yeah, but the US and many other English speaking countries are nominally Christian countries without the "extreme right wings...

...and it would seriously risk the Producer's and Network's advertising dollars to alienate a good protion of the audience for merely a fiction show.

Also, the "MO" for "God" isn't the same as the other god's...

...all the pacifism crap doesn't make as much sense in the Goa'uld world.

*shrug*

Maybe as an ArchGoa'uld with underling "Saints" between so that "God" can "keep his hands clean"...

...That way, you get the "vile works" done while keeping your soul clean for "God".

The other problem is the degree of absorbtion of other religions' rites and holidays and even concepts from other religions...

...an argument could be made that Christianity, Islam that appears to be descended from it, and the Jewish religion that seems to have absorbed a lot also are all, in fact, derivitives of older religions and may not have existed when the Goa'uld were on Earth last.

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"Truth requires no belief and Belief requires no truth."

"Our actions support our beliefs, but without our beliefs, we have no justification for our actions." - J. Wheeler

"Everything has its own place and function. That applies to people, although many don't seem to realize it, stuck as they are in the wrong job, the wrong marriage, or the wrong house. When you know and respect your Inner Nature, you know where you belong. You also know where you don't belong." -From "The Tao of Pooh"

You too can be *NUKED*! Ask me How!

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Registered: Jul 2002
Location: In the woods(and playing banjo)
Posts: 217

But they do claim so. In the bible. Some guy goes to egypt when the goa'uld were still on earth(ca 1800-1700 BC).

Pacifism crap? That's not concerning the god. It's just considering his followers(which they anyway made a bad example of, warring all the time). But it seems like freedom of religion doesn't grant you freedom from religion.

Okunolu or what the guys called seems to be from a african religion. Given the lack of understanding that is generally showed for these religion makes it plausible that that religion is still active. Anyone out there who knows?

Back to my early thought though... The guys behind the movie 'Gods Army' dared to write a fictional story based on christian religion that didn't put god in a to good place, waging war with his servants and so on. So why isn't it possible for Stargate to do the same?

I mean we are generally so proud of being so much more secular than the islamic world, yet this proves that that isn't the case. We're still stuck in medival beliefs whose only purpose is to control people. As for that matter, being a member of a christian church isn't the same thing as being christian. But it's always good use statistics as proof for misconceptions that serves their thread of thought.

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: England Elvenname: Ainari?l Telr?nya
Posts: 6157

What are the references in the first post? SG books, eps, non-SG books???

DB - your argument: where would you go from there? Using Isis isn't the same as using the Virgin Mary, as is using Apophis or Sokar the same as using Satan or the Christian devil. Though I wouldn't exactly call the Bible a reliable source, but then, I guess some would.

Besides, how many people are serious enough Christians to actually... think much of it if their God was used? I don't see it as mocking the religion, but then, sure there's been a thread about this somewhere before...

I think the using Nirrti was .... well, think they may have overlooked she still has some followers?

And 320rwekfpl, how are we stuck in medieval ways/beliefs?

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Posts: 1416

Okay...

First, my nuked post said: "$$$" IIRC...

My "God the ArchGoa'uld" idea is based on the premise that "God" would be a jealous one and also try to establish "moral superiority" over his flock...

The problem is that it severely limits his ability to enforce discipline without alienating his flock that believe it.

I mean, striking people down for piddly crap is a bit counterproductive.

So...

He uses intermediaries that are able to punish those that fail and enforce discipline in his name.

To sort of "cleanse them before God sees them."

So "God" stays a benevolent god, and his underlings do the bad necessary stuff in his name, under his direction, for the "flocks own good.".

I just thought "Saints" were a good title for his 2nd Tier Goa'uld...

...and his First Prime?

"The Pope"...

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- Deathbunny

"Truth requires no belief and Belief requires no truth."

"Our actions support our beliefs, but without our beliefs, we have no justification for our actions." - J. Wheeler

"Everything has its own place and function. That applies to people, although many don't seem to realize it, stuck as they are in the wrong job, the wrong marriage, or the wrong house. When you know and respect your Inner Nature, you know where you belong. You also know where you don't belong." -From "The Tao of Pooh"

You too can be *NUKED*! Ask me How!

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Registered: Jul 2002
Location: In the woods(and playing banjo)
Posts: 217

In the way we let religion into public life. In the way we think of moslems as bad guys without hesitation. It's pretty much the same reasoning today as it were against witches during the witch trials.
Maybe it's not as much as were stuck, as were not evolving. Sure we mastered a few technologies and wrinkle our noses a lot, but under the surface, nothing has happened.

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 2928

that doesn't mean we dont try. Its just that olde governments, those that control the masses, were formed in a time when the church, or other religious influences, had 'control' over them. and even if there is a seperate state, the churches, in particular the Christian chruches of the western world, are still deluded into thinking they have the right to control what the masses think. Slowly but surely they are being extracted from politics, social and communal beliefs, science et al, but you've gotta give it some time.

In relation to the show - you go with whats worked in the past - and Stargate is no different. In the same way the religion controled the government, they controled what the general public were privy to: media being a prime example. Only wholesome, good and clean television that promoted good, christian families and morals.
And so, the tv that has rated since then has been based on what came before it. Styles and genres changed, but with only a few exceptions, it's still about basic good and evil. And for thousands of years, the image of evil has been the devil, or its many associates.

Even if it wasn't intentional, if you've got a good thing, stick to it - and the writers, maybe even consciously in the case of a story so heavily steeped in ancient mythology, used the same formula.

Basically, this theory or analysis can be applied to anything. If you're being specific to one tv show, then you do start to look for things that just aren't there.

But then, isn't that what this fora is all about..?

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Registered: Jul 2002
Location: In the woods(and playing banjo)
Posts: 217

That was pretty much a general thought. Nothing more... I was asked to explain what I meant, and I did so.

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Registered: Jul 2002
Location: In the woods(and playing banjo)
Posts: 217

Regarding Olokun. It's seems pretty disrespectful to use him as a gou'ald. If I'm to belive web info at least...

http://www.agate.net/~ile/oba/olokun.html
http://www.yoruban.org

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: On station at a distant underground nuclear missile silo...
Posts: 1816

quote:

---

Originally posted by Deathbunny
Okay...

First, my nuked post said: "$$$" IIRC...

My "God the ArchGoa'uld" idea is based on the premise that "God" would be a jealous one and also try to establish "moral superiority" over his flock...

The problem is that it severely limits his ability to enforce discipline without alienating his flock that believe it.

I mean, striking people down for piddly crap is a bit counterproductive.

So...

He uses intermediaries that are able to punish those that fail and enforce discipline in his name.

To sort of "cleanse them before God sees them."

So "God" stays a benevolent god, and his underlings do the bad necessary stuff in his name, under his direction, for the "flocks own good.".

I just thought "Saints" were a good title for his 2nd Tier Goa'uld...

...and his First Prime?

"The Pope"...

---

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Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Ireland
Posts: 233

I see no relationship to the Left Behind books by tim La Haye and J. B Jenkins and Stargate.
The books are a take on the book of revelations about the coming of the antichrist and the third coming of Jesus Christ. (The second coming being when He returns to take the church out of the way for judgment to come) They are based on literal interpretation of the book of revelations, book of Daniel and Isiaiah. Which incidentally I happen to believe will happen.

Stargate is so totally removed form the premise in these books.

I am a huge fan of SG1 but if they ever introduce Jesus or Jehovah to the show I'll be saying Ciao! Insult My God-Insult me!

Re: Going to a christian church doesn't make you a christian-that's correct. You must be born again to be a christian! Protestant Catholic whatever-it's accepting Jesus and His teachings in your heart that saves!

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Registered: Jul 2002
Location: In the woods(and playing banjo)
Posts: 217

And how come that rule doesn't apply to the Yurobans? How it only applies to a christian god. I find it quite offensive that they think that they just have to insult less technically advanced cultures by making evil characters of their gods (Niirti, Kali and Olokun). I say, leave all living religions out of the series or make a gou'ald of every god that's been celebrated on earth.

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