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dr.taz
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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: Camped out in front of the telly
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quote:
Originally posted by Blue Genes
when he was found to possess it, he was deemed flawed. It was by no means a flaw that meant he had to be left behind and a flaw that meant him giving up his own life to save them and their cause.



didn't the replicators know from the start that he had more humanity? they 'created' him because they were trying to correct *their* flaw which is the same flaw the android that created them had.

fifth wasn't left behind cos of his humanity and i don't hink he was willing to give up his life to help. i doubt he would've helped so readily if sam hadn't promised to bring him with them. he had to be left behind because he was a replicator and it would only take one replicator to make millions and start the whole thing again. when the replicators 'created' him, they didn't fully correct the flaw. He had more humanity than his fellow replicator-human-android-thingys but not enough that he wasn't still a rep.

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Old Post 12-05-2002 04:50 PM
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Blue Genes
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Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Scotland
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Nope, they were just doing their job of replicating and making more of themselves in their evolved state. It just turned out that Fifth had what they deemed a flaw...he was 'born' with a humanity they were lacking in.

I didn't say he was left behind 'because' of his humanity, but as Jonas pointed out, they used it against him to get what they wanted from him and then discarded him. He wasn't 'expecting' to have to give up his life to help them, but he did say that if he betrayed his kind, it would mean the end of him and since SG1 abandoned him, we're left with the assumption that even if they're moving extremely slowly from our perspective...they'll still punish him for it.

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Old Post 12-05-2002 08:11 PM
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president doc
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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: London.
Posts: 6137

He was just about to turn off the device when we saw him leave... his hand was a few inches away from the panel?

So, in the time it takes him to reach it, it may be a few decades, whatever it is, its not gonna be many hundreds or thousands of years because they virtually turned it off when the device was activated... so they have time to work out what to do with the general infestation and the evolved reps on the planet, but they probably have less time than originally anticipated to deal with it.

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Old Post 12-05-2002 08:40 PM
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dr.taz
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Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by Blue Genes
Nope, they were just doing their job of replicating and making more of themselves in their evolved state. It just turned out that Fifth had what they deemed a flaw...he was 'born' with a humanity they were lacking in.



yeah they did. first says that they were trying to correct their original flaw (which they became aware of when the met android lady who's name i can't remember ) when they 'made' fifth. it wasn't fully corrected however. After he was made they then deemed it as a weakness and stopped trying to corretct the flaw because they then viewed humanity as a weakness.

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Old Post 12-05-2002 08:47 PM
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KMInfinity
Nereid

Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Cassiopeia
Posts: 131

Overall an excellent episode... Thanks to Vern for making it available to those of us who would have to wait weeks instead.

I am impressed with how well the writers were able to blend tragedy and comedy. There was a definite tinge of darkness added. I like that the consequences were more ambiguous, that the "evil" was less clear-cut compared to the Goa'uld threat. The discussion about the replicators being neither good nor evil, but "merely" like a virus, as Teal'c pointed out, reflects Jack's POV---so he's ready to sacrifice Fifth, just as we'd amputate a diseased limb. Yet, Jonas and Sam did a nice job sketching the alternative but valid POV.

I also liked how the theme of the show was understated yet it resonated throughout. IMO, the theme was that was no "right" way to win and that winning comes at a moral cost, sometimes. As First said, humans have the same attitude about "less advanced" species on Earth. There's a nice resonance with The Once and Future King--First clearly advocates the idea of "Might Makes Right" while Jack has the idea that "Survival is its own excuse". Therefore, Jack is more like First than he would want to admit perhaps. Maybe the title refers to the fact that Jack's choice was an unnatural selection -- he did not choose a "human"* option to solve the problem. Granted, the show was kind of slanted to Jack's POV -- that there were no other options.

I need to rewatch the episode again or get some help with these questions:

1--The whole "flaw" issue.....if the replicators are "engineering" themselves, then First is not the "Final" version. So they think Fifth's humanity was a mistake. What are they trying to achieve?

2--Based on Thor's early info, what is the timeslip from the replicator bubble to the realtime universe? And just how long will it take Fifth to turn off the time dilator? or will he? He was reaching for it--to turn it off or to just check it? Even a few moments of reflection on his part could add years of time for the Asgard. What if he reflects and spends a few seconds or minutes defending the TD, forcing First and the oldreps to spend more time before they can turn it off? In other words--what is the window of realtime the Asgard now have?

Minimum--Fifth turns the Time Dilator off immediately--3 seconds?

Maximum--Fifth defends the TD for _____ minutes before it is turned off. 2 minutes?



*Human--used here to represent the best of moral development---the idea that one's humanity is about more than surviving

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Old Post 12-05-2002 10:17 PM
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320rwekfpl
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Registered: Jul 2002
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I was a good episode, but I really didn't like the ending. It felt like pure evil to me. And a way to ensure that tradegy repeats itself.

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Old Post 12-06-2002 04:01 AM
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MajorSam
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Registered: Jul 2002
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Ok, since i didn't get to do a full opinion on my last post, and now that i've seen it...three times, in the last 24 hours... i will now! I LOVED IT!!!! the Teal'c Ice cream thing was AWESOME, and the Jack "Why not!" Enterprise thing was EVEN BETTER!!!ROFLMAO!!! and i really loved Fifth, and was SOOOOOOO sad when they left him behind! I really hope it comes back to haunt them! he looked so crestfallen, and disbelieving at the end! *SOB* and the planet was really spooky, and i LOVE Thor, and the Prometheus looks like a giant vaccuum cleaner, and Jonas is awesome! i really liked the Jack "Training up the new guy" thing, making Jonas load the gun over and over, and Hammond looked so happy when Jack used the Asgard hologram thing, and popped up all in all, i Loved it, but o would have ADORED it if they had brought along poor little Fifth! *sob* but i do understand why the did... but i still aint happy 'bout it!

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Old Post 12-06-2002 04:07 AM
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Kamakazi Casper
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Registered: Oct 2001
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Maybe Sam did something to the TD to prevent them from altering it either?

Also, she said in the beginning that it would take a few hours to correct the TD, and it must have taken fifth a while to correct it. That gives them even more time.

Blue Genes, rewatch the bit where SG-1 are sitting to dinner. They tell first about Reese's flaw and first tells them that he saw her flaw and corrected it making fifth. But they didn't like fifth's humanity, viewing it as a weakness, and didn't fix the flaw for sixth and so on.

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Old Post 12-06-2002 09:10 AM
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KMInfinity
Nereid

Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Cassiopeia
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Good point Kamakazi--so it may not be merely a matter of turning off the TD. They may actually have to ... to... carefully and patiently disconnect it or re-engineer it. Kind of like not being able to turn off a bomb, but needing to defuse it. I see. Maybe.

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Old Post 12-06-2002 09:23 AM
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Goa`uld
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Registered: Oct 2001
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There wasn't really any humour in it, just continuations of the characters we all know. I thought Hammond's grandkids mention was amusing, but that's it.
The ending was brilliant. Also the actor who played the fifth did a great job. I especially liked the last shot of him with a look on his face indicating Sam broke his heart, haha.
It was a great concept for a story arc with the replicators, and it was pulled off really well.
Loved the Asgard homeworld, reminded me of how I first imagined it back when we heard of the race in "Thor's Hammer" I imagined lots of misty atmosphere and lightning.

Props to vern for bringing us the episode too. You did a good job man, my subwoofers were shaking my whole house when Promethius did flybys.

Does it bother anyone that the speedy dialator was on, and that when SG-1 returns to Earth, an extended length of time will have passed? Anyone figured out roughly how long?

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Old Post 12-06-2002 10:14 PM
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Goa`uld
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I'm a little confused as to why the "previously on stargate sg-1" had the line about approaching the X303 from behind because of the incomplete radar. They could have used this as a plot element to get the replicators to board the X303 and make things a little more interesting. They also had a death glider at their disposal, I'm dissapointed they didn't fly through the storm clouds in it

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Old Post 12-06-2002 10:17 PM
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Rhydderch Hael
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Registered: Oct 2001
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Carter said something to the tune of 4 days on the planet would go by when only 1 day went by in the universe. Or was it four days in an hour?...

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Old Post 12-06-2002 11:02 PM
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MajorSam
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it was four days in one hour

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Old Post 12-07-2002 01:23 AM
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Barry
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Registered: Oct 2001
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The 'radar' thing was just to show that Jack and Teal'c got on board the X-303.

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Old Post 12-07-2002 08:14 AM
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Sam
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Registered: Nov 2002
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 120

I really liked the ending. It's not often that we're not sure whether or not O'Neill has made a bad decision, it'd be good if we saw some repercussions from this.

And it was Ben and Jerry's. I know my ice-cream. I remember thinking at the time "I wonder if we have any Full Vermonty?"

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Old Post 12-07-2002 11:31 AM
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