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320rwekfpl
Evil Incarnated

Registered: Jul 2002
Location: In the woods(and playing banjo)
Posts: 217

The Goa'uld Genetic Memory

Can anyone please explain to me how this thing is supposed to work. How the Tok'ra and Anubis is able to hide and so on. Selective sharing or? It would be more belivable if they shared the memories of the queen that concieved them...

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Old Post 12-10-2002 04:46 AM
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D?W?R
1st Prime of Apophis

Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Vancouver Canada
Posts: 454

well they do share the memories of the queen

but the tokra and the goauld come from different queens

the tokra come from Egeria and they have all the memories that she had which was thousands of years ago

the goauld come probably from a # of diff. queens.

as for the hiding thing, I am not sure what you mean

the tokra move all the time and there are thousands of planets to hide on

btw all the major goauld system lords are among the original ones
and they are thousands of years old

so the memories that Anubis gained in his thousands of years are diff from what lets say Apophis or Ra would have

but they all share the knowledge of their common ancestor
Heru'ur has all the memories of Hathor and Ra prior to his birth, because they are this parents.

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Old Post 12-10-2002 05:42 AM
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Venus
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So, they only get genetic memory of their parents?

And that's wierd, what if a parent had a surpressed memory, or had forgotton something. Would the child know both? Am I looking at this in totally the wrong way?

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Old Post 12-10-2002 11:13 AM
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Kamakazi Casper
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Registered: Oct 2001
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They can hide from the other goaq'uld because the goa'uld are only born with genetic memory. They don't get more as they grow older. What I mean is, they only know what the queen goa'uld knew when they were born.

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Old Post 12-10-2002 12:01 PM
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alex8472
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Registered: Sep 2002
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uh i dont think the queen has anything to do with it
remember in the the power or something like that
teal'c says that the sybiote is born with the genetic memory of the apophis
no mention of ammunet suggesting that she had nothing to do with it
and as for the tok'ra well
actally i don't know ive myself

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Old Post 12-10-2002 12:33 PM
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dr.taz
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Registered: Sep 2002
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well, genetic memory from both parents. What way does goa'uld breeding go exactly? We know hathor needed sperm to reproduce (hathor), but does she need it each time she has kids of was it just getting the code of life to ensure host compatability?
How do two goa'uld reproduce to make a harcesis exactly? Cos if the likes of amounet needed apophis' hosts sperm to make the kids then that could explain the genetic memory from both parents. but does this only work if it comes from another goa'uld (or would the symbiotes in hathor have daniel's memories? i doubt that though...). And if this works, how does the harcesis work? (maybe apophis had to get the host pregnant while under the influence of the goa'uld, if you get what i mean)
If production is purely asexual with the queen only needing to get the 'code' to ensure compatability once, how does the symbiote have apophis' memories?
A symbiote can't have the memory of all goa'uld cos then why would a harcesis be so special.

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Old Post 12-10-2002 12:53 PM
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Venus
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quote:
Originally posted by dr.taz
We know hathor needed sperm to reproduce (hathor), but does she need it each time she has kids of was it just getting the code of life to ensure host compatability?

I think it would last her longer than just once, but I don't have any proof, I just think that.

quote:
How do two goa'uld reproduce to make a harcesis exactly?

Again, no proof, but what it seems to me is that two Goa'uld have sex (I can say that, can't I?!) while in their hosts. So the physical product/offspring is a human child, but because of the melding with the (parents') symbiotes, they (the child) have some of their symbiote parents characteristics as well - for example, memory, maybe extended lifespan etc.

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Old Post 12-10-2002 05:49 PM
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KMInfinity
Nereid

Registered: Jun 2002
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I agree Venus~ The HUMAN child has the GOA'ULD genetic memory and maybe some powers humnas don't usually have. I would suppose the Goa'uld fear this because the human child may relate more to the human species, rather than the Goa'uld.

Maybe, since I haven't seen all of seasons 4 and 5 yet, this gets addressed, but....
--It's kind of illogical that the most powerful Goa'ulds are the oldest in one sense. The youngest ones would have a more "varied" and "complete" memory, right?
--Why would the Goa'uld want many symbiotes being hosted? All those Jaffa, all those symbiotes=potential rivals.
--Is the genetic memory immediately accessible, or is it developed in stages as a goa'uld develops in the human host? In other words, maybe the snake "has" the memory, but until it "works the kinks" out of controlling the host, and maybe gains some life experience of its own, the genetic memory is only potentially available. Kind of like people who have spellcheck on the hard drive, but never bother to use it to spell correctly.

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Old Post 12-10-2002 08:22 PM
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Anudist
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In depth explanation of Genetic memory, feel free to correct/dispute anything I say, this is simply my understanding of the subject, not my all knowing answer.


A Goa'uld Queen somehow learns how to escape from the swamp it calls home. It infests a creature (most likely an Unas) but has limited control over the host, and simply learns from the experience. She then somehow uses the DNA of the Unas to produce offpsring.

The offspring Goa'uld is born with the knowledge of the Queens escape from the swamp, her experiences with blending, everything the Queen experienced, and the knowledge of the Unas who she blended with. This offspring Goa'uld is better prepared than she was, it now knows what to expect. He should also be able to retain better control over any Unas he blends with. As a result he gains Knowledge that has taken the Unas species millions of years to aquire. Tool building, hunting, survival..etc. He is aware of much more than the Queen was.

Now say the first generation Queen bore a second generation Queen, that Queen has a massive advantage. All it would take is for her to infest an Unas or any other creature and all her offspring would then be born with 2 generations of Queen knowledge and the memories of two different Unas. Everytime this process occours the Goa'uld gets smarter and smarter, and therefore bolder. A Queen could experiment with many species, from animals to a visiting alien. Each time aquiring all the knowledge of that host and passing it on to the Queens it gives birth to.

All the non Queens that are born will not go on to further the Goa'uld race, unless they choose to share any knowledge they aquire, or if some process exists for a Queen and a none queen to mate. I dont mean the hosts of each, I mean the actual snakes themselves. However a Goa'ulds natural yearning for power will probably prevent them from sharing anything they learn. Most present day Goa'uld are probably born with almost a base pack of knowledge such as ship building, space travel, hand device tech, uses of the Jaffa. Everything that the Queen who bore them is current aware of.

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Old Post 12-10-2002 10:21 PM
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_.:?nubis:._
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If the knowledge is genetic that would meen that their DNA changes everytime they learn something new each time. And the queens must be capable of self fertilization, this would explain why they are all evil and why the are also incapable of becomming queens themselves. Hathor's host must have been willing, she spoke like a tok'ra eg We will destroy you, we had such high hopes for you, blah blah blah.

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Old Post 12-11-2002 01:26 AM
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320rwekfpl
Evil Incarnated

Registered: Jul 2002
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One question is though why a Goa'uld breed by Amunet and Apophis would have the genetic memory of one breed by Cronos. S3, S4 or S5 spoiler(dont remember correctly.

Spoiler:

Like when Teal'cs symbiote gives him a vision of his fathers death, something Teal'c himself never watched as I've understood it...


S5 spoiler:
Spoiler:

BTW, with hiding I meant what Anubis been doing all this time. Since he was thought for dead.

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Old Post 12-11-2002 03:41 AM
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Anudist
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quote:
Originally posted by _.:?nubis:._
If the knowledge is genetic that would meen that their DNA changes everytime they learn something new each time. And the queens must be capable of self fertilization, this would explain why they are all evil and why the are also incapable of becomming queens themselves. Hathor's host must have been willing, she spoke like a tok'ra eg We will destroy you, we had such high hopes for you, blah blah blah.


Maybe a part of their DNA changes, genetic memory doesn't mean your genetics are re-ordered with every experience. In the same sense that your entire brain chemistry doesn't change simply because you experienced something new.

Also we've seen other Goa'uld speak as if it were the host speaking freely, remember Kewalsky?(sp). As to asexual production, I'm not sure.

Season 6 - Cure: Spoiler

Spoiler:
Energia the Tok'ra Queen was attached to a larger mass, that is before she seperated herself in order to blend with the Tok'ra female. The mass may have been an egg sac of some kind, or it could have been another creature being used for it's genetic information in the same way hathor used Daniels DNA


All speculation however, hopefully we will get some of our answers in future.

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Old Post 12-11-2002 06:29 AM
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Venus
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quote:
Originally posted by Anudist
All it would take is for her to infest an Unas or any other creature and all her offspring would then be born with 2 generations of Queen knowledge and the memories of two different Unas.

All specualtion, but I disagree. I don't think they'd get all (or any) of the hosts memories, and they would only get their parents memories. But then... If that were true, wouldn't their parents memories be identical to their parents and so on?

quote:
Originally posted by Anubis
And the queens must be capable of self fertilization, this would explain why they are all evil

What?! How did you get there?!

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Old Post 12-11-2002 10:42 AM
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Anudist
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Venus that part wasn't speculation, in some episodes the Goa'uld is able to obtain all their hosts memories.

Small Nightwalkers spoiler:

Spoiler:
The Goa'uld in Nightwalkers retained the knowledge of their hosts, learning about current situations with the NID, etc. The lead Goa'uld even said at one point "do you have the memories of your host?"... that at least points us to believe that it is possible.


Also remember Hathor wanted to implant a mature Goa'uld into one of the SG1 team members for the sole purpose of finding out about current events within the Galaxy, as well as other information such as codes for Earths iris.

(not trying to prove you wrong for the sake of it, so dont take offense)

Also as to parents having the same memory of their parents...etc. Imagine if you were born with all the memories your mother had until your birth. Then she had the knowledge of her mother up till her own birth. Then the same process had happened down the entire line of females. ALL of that knowledge aquired in that line has been passed on to you. Now if you had a child she/he would get all that knowledge too, as well as any new things you have learned in your lifetime.

Am I making any sense?

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Old Post 12-11-2002 11:37 AM
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Venus
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Yeah, two good points...

The latter I'd thought too, bit confused there, maybe someone else'll have ideas. Though that would mean that heirs had an advantage if trying to overthrow their fathers... Maybe...

And not offended, good point. OK, I'm gonna go think on this and lurk some more on this thread.

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Old Post 12-11-2002 11:42 AM
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