Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Wrightwood, California, Earth
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SG-1: Secular Humanist propaganda?

Has anyone else gotten the impression that SG-1 was intended to promote a Secular Humanist outlook?

Consider:

(1) The series shows that the ancient "gods" are in fact just technologically advanced extraterrestrials, made of meat, which humans with our current level of technology can kill.

(2) The Tollans' human-derived civilization, of which we've only seen a few glimpses, seems to be a Secular Humanist utopia. In the first season episode, "Enigma," Narim tells Sam that his people used to believe in angel-like beings until they decided that reason and science provided the proper way for humans to live. Their nonviolence philosophy, social transparency and ethical sophistication, as shown in the Triad episode, also seem in line with Secular Humanist ideals.

(3) In "Enigma," after Narim tells Sam about confusing her with an angel, Sam said that some terrestrial humans still hold such beliefs, but didn't say that she did herself. Daniel credits the Tollans' technological advancement to the fact that they weren't burdened with a millennium-year-long dark age -- imposed by whom on this planet, do you suppose?

(4) The Tok'Ra disavow the godhood assumed by their Goa'uld cousins, but don't profess any religious beliefs themselves. The absence of false gods doesn't imply the existence of true ones.

I could probably name some other examples, but these stand out in my memory. It's widely known that Gene Roddenberry intended Star Trek to promote humanistic ideas, so there is already a precedent for this sort of thing.

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Registered: Apr 2002
Location: UK
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Don't know about all that, never really looked it in anything more than a common sense thing. Science prevails over God. Though of course it's simple to disprove the existence of God in no more than a few sentences.

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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Wrightwood, California, Earth
Posts: 14

Of course, the U.K. and other Western European countries are a lot less religious than the U.S.:

http://www.secularhumanism.org/libr...ishop_19_3.html

Americans need a lot of education before they can get up to a civilized standard of rationality. (For one thing, they'd stop wasting their money on books and videos about the Rapture, talking with the dead and similar foolishness.)

If SG-1 contributes towards the process of enlightenment, then that's all the more reason to support it.

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Registered: Apr 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 316

Man you know, I like the cut of your jib. Catholicism can be easily tossed aside (it took me three mins once to sort a catholic out with their own bible). Religion as a whole can be demolished in a five minute chat with someone.

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: London.
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Sometimes its better not to try and convince, its pointless if a belief has been indoctrinated from youth, there is nothing that can be done in a lot of cases.

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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Wrightwood, California, Earth
Posts: 14

I imagine a lot of youngsters watch "SG-1," much as I watched "Star Trek" in syndication in the 1970's, and a lot more will be introduced to it if the "Stargate: Infinity" cartoon ever gets on the air. They are the ones who are most receptive to the pro-humanist message in the series. Religions are always one generation away from extinction because they require invasive social mechanisms to perpetuate themselves.

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Registered: Oct 2001
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'Tis funky that the only spiritual doctrine to ever have been preached was by K'Tano in the episode "The Warrior". All Jaffa who fight and die for freedom are destined a place in Kev, that once-forbidden world where Jaffa went to die.

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Sydney
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Soooo not adding or detracting to the obvious aethist undertones of this thread, but I've always thought SG-1 has been careful to only point out ancient gods as Goa'ulds. Oh and Satan of course. Satan being bad and all. Overall though, I think the message would be, goa'ulds = false gods, not gods in general don't exist. They have been careful to never say religion is lies and fairytales.
Just because Sokhar chose 'be' Satan, doesn't mean there is none - if you get my drift. The belief in Satan was there before Sokhar.

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Registered: Oct 2001
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Science fiction TV shows have not much been in the business of addressing spiritual and religious issues. The only one of recent note is Babylon 5, and even then the emphasis was on the Mimbari outlook of the universe fragementing itself in order to understand itself.

Another interesting exception, especially to SG-1 fans, would have to be Battlestar Galactica. In that show, we had the Twelve Tribes of humanity, scattered among the stars and becoming quite advanced in technology, then be wiped out by a race called the Cylons. The survivors' ships form a convoy and set out for the last, lost, and oh-so distant 13th human world with which they have lost all contact?Earth. In that show, they possessed a faith and religion that was in fact the predecessor to ancient Greek mythology.

But as a whole, when one is in a genre called science fiction, that essence of science that permeates the story tends to shove out mysticism and spirituality. In most stories that do feature science and faith, usually the religion is in dire conflict with the cold, hard facts of science. Never is there harmony between faith and science. It would be very hard to do so without being false to one or the other. On one end of the spectrum, you can have sci-fi that quite secular and aetheistic; while on the other end the sci-fi story may be little more than a parable for a religious dogma, where the scientific aspects are window dressing.

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Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:

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Originally posted by nug
...but I've always thought SG-1 has been careful to only point out ancient gods as Goa'ulds...

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Except when they use the Hindu gods

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Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:

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Originally posted by advancedatheist
(1) The series shows that the ancient "gods" are in fact just technologically advanced extraterrestrials, made of meat, which humans with our current level of technology can kill.

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I don't see it as that, I kinda see it as a strategy: exploiting human weakness, or the desire for... a leader or whatever. They also show the flaws of the Goa'ulds, (not being actual gods), for example, Threshold, when Teal'c is erm.. not convinced, is all I'll say without spoiler tags.

Plus, overall, it's based on science, think somebody made this point earlier, it's gonna take a scientific approach. If they added aspects of religion, or miricles, or whatever can only be explained by divine intervention, then it would be difficult to know where to draw the line, and you get back to the whole, it's based on science, not divine intervention, you need to watch something like Touched By An Angel for that?

quote:

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(2) The Tollans' human-derived civilization, of which we've only seen a few glimpses, seems to be a Secular Humanist utopia...Their nonviolence philosophy, social transparency and ethical sophistication, as shown in the Triad episode, also seem in line with Secular Humanist ideals.

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Kind of a lame... comment (mine not yours ), but like you said, we've only seen a glimpse, they might also (every society has problems, even if the Tollan one had minimal ones) be fighting some extreme religious group (as in, it might exist in their society). Even if they don't believe in Gods, or the embodiment of them, they might believe in... well, some other spritual essense. Predetermination, or destiny, or some other idea that we haven't yet explored.

quote:

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(3) In "Enigma," after Narim tells Sam about confusing her with an angel, Sam said that some terrestrial humans still hold such beliefs, but didn't say that she did herself. Daniel credits the Tollans' technological advancement to the fact that they weren't burdened with a millennium-year-long dark age -- imposed by whom on this planet, do you suppose?

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Not quite seeing the relevance with Sam's beliefs, she's a scientist, surely it's obvious she wouldn't believe in angels? Similarly, not quite sure what your point is about the Dark Ages, I get that religion was the cause, but that's not the only cause, natural disasters or simply dictators or rulers have also cause a huge period of ... backwardness. Earth has also had that, the Tollan might have too.

quote:

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(4) The Tok'Ra disavow the godhood assumed by their Goa'uld cousins, but don't profess any religious beliefs themselves. The absence of false gods doesn't imply the existence of true ones.

---

Being scientists, they are probably the same as Sam, or maybe just kind of wary (as anyone would be finding out that what they thought was a God, wasn't) as to forming religious beliefs. Seems kinda... weak (again, me, not you), but some Tok'ra might believe in some kind of God, or .. spiritual essense.

Also, maybe just my interpretation, but in Maternal Instinct Spoilers, they (the producers etc) don't do anything to discredit the whole philosophy/caretaker/afterlife thing in the... temple thing (Sigh, I'm really not with it today), thought that maybe cos it's supposed to be the foundation of ... buddhism, was it?

Not that I'm disagreeing with everything you say, and I agree with the whole "the U.K. and other Western European countries are a lot less religious than the U.S." thing.

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Registered: Apr 2002
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Yeah, it scares me, that God has a TV channel. Isn't TV a tool of Satan or something. Americans...

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Considering that secular humanists believe the physical laws of the universe are not superseded by non-material or supernatural entities such as demons, gods, or other "spiritual" beings outside the realm of the natural universe, I think you're reading more into the abilities of the writers of a one hour show than what they deserve. Supernatural events such as miracles (in which physical laws are defied) and psi phenomena, such as ESP, telekinesis, etc., are not dismissed out of hand, but are viewed with a high degree of skepticism by secular humanists. I don't believe this is an active part of the story bible. I think they invite us to think beyond normal paths and be open rather than skeptical. This is certainly part of the whole "Ascension" program. I would never dismiss anything out of hand simply because I had not found the "proof" of it.

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Registered: Jan 2002
Location: London
Posts: 272

Being a Hindu, I have no qualms having our deities on Stargate. The reason? Hinduism is perhaps one of the oldest religions on the earth, its roots being traced back over 6000 years (I think its 10, but I cant be 100% sure).

This would put the beginings of Hinduisim at the time of when the stargate was actualy on earth, and does fit in nicely.

At the end of day, they are not inciting any sort of anti-hinduism feeling or saying anything about the religion in general. Some hindus may feel the producers have overstepped their bounds, but its its nothing compared to what some other religious fundamentalists would do if their 'god' was portrayed as a goauld.

In the mean time just sit back and enjoy the show. If you dont like it, turn over.

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Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:

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Originally posted by Adonis
Yeah, it scares me, that God has a TV channel.

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Einstein has one, was watching it earlier.

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