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nug
Melon

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Sydney
Posts: 911

Interesting viewpoint In 2 Deep. My sentiments exactly.
I think you can read into SG-1 what you want. Oh and I meant to add earlier,

quote:
(3) In "Enigma," after Narim tells Sam about confusing her with an angel, Sam said that some terrestrial humans still hold such beliefs, but didn't say that she did herself.

It's interesting that Narim, belonging to a so called religion-less Humanist utopia, thought that Sam was an angel. Surely that's backward thinking for a Tollan, and yet near death - he thought back to an old belief.
I also agree with Venus, we know practically nothing about their society, they may have some sort of religion, or spiritual belief that we know nothing about.

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Old Post 06-04-2002 05:14 AM
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advancedatheist
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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Wrightwood, California, Earth
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quote:


It's interesting that Narim, belonging to a so called religion-less Humanist utopia, thought that Sam was an angel. Surely that's backward thinking for a Tollan, and yet near death - he thought back to an old belief.
I also agree with Venus, we know practically nothing about their society, they may have some sort of religion, or spiritual belief that we know nothing about.



All Narim's response indicates is that your judgment is impaired when you're really, really ill or injured. It's like the case when you can talk a dying person into changing his will, which he wouldn't have done if he were healthy enough to pass as mentally competent. I know some people who got cheated out of a lot of money that way.

That's why I've never understood what a "deathbed conversion" is supposed to prove, much less the religious conversions of people with behavioral problems (drug abuse, alcoholism, violence, etc.) indicative of poor impulse control and lack of foresight and judgment. It seems to me that Christians and adherents of similar proselytizing religions (like the one much in the news lately) would want to show the validity of their beliefs by trotting out converts who already have a track record of making good decisions.

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Old Post 06-04-2002 03:51 PM
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president doc
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A death bed conversion is hedging bets... wouldnt want to have the last chance of being saved taken away eh?

JESUS BUDDHA ALLAH... I love you all!!!

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Old Post 06-04-2002 04:12 PM
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Venus
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Edit - Pres said pretty much what I was gonna say, but I'll post it anyway.

quote:
Originally posted by advancedatheist
That's why I've never understood what a "deathbed conversion" is supposed to prove.

It seems to me that Christians and adherents of similar proselytizing religions (like the one much in the news lately) would want to show the validity of their beliefs by trotting out converts who already have a track record of making good decisions.


They do the second part anyway, when they convert people, like, when they're alive, if you get what I mean?

For the point of view of the potential convertee, death is so much nearer, you're bound to start to panic, and wonder if there is something more, and you want to hedge your bets, if there is, ensure you'll get there, what harm can it do? (Check out Pascal's Wager). I can totally understand why someone might suddenly convert at point of death. It's not like you're losing anything, in fact, quite the opposite, ensuring if there is anywhere to get, you'll get there.

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Old Post 06-04-2002 04:30 PM
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president doc
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Of course, there is the matter of pride, just keep the conversion to yourself....

oO*well doc, youre about to kick the bucket.... god, if you exist? I dont like you, and you dont like me, but just incase you do exist, I believe in you now so Im going to heaven... that will be all. ... Oh, and if you dont exist... HAH!!! I WIN!!!!! *

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Old Post 06-04-2002 04:36 PM
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nug
Melon

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Sydney
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People who convert on their deathbed, misunderstand the point of their religion imo. If their God existed, like he wouldn't see through the fact they're just trying to make sure they're not going to hell? lol

quote:
All Narim's response indicates is that your judgment is impaired when you're really, really ill or injured.

Not to mention, when you're really, really scared ;P
That's one way of looking at it anyway. Another way of looking at it, is that, if indeed he lived in a god-less society, that he feared he might have gotten it wrong. Judgement impaired or not, in the end, with all the Tollan's scientific knowledge - he still ended up god-fearing. I don't think it's supposed to prove anything, except that he may have thought he had no doubt about what their ancestors used to believe, but maybe he wasn't so sure. If they had indeed decided there was no God...or Gods...or Angels..or whatever, I reckon there'd be people within that society who still held onto their belief system anyway. Like Jack said, 'there's always one in every crowd'.
Hmm I've forgotten my point. Good stuff nug.

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Old Post 06-04-2002 05:09 PM
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advancedatheist
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Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by nug

It's interesting that Narim, belonging to a so called religion-less Humanist utopia, thought that Sam was an angel. Surely that's backward thinking for a Tollan, and yet near death - he thought back to an old belief.
I also agree with Venus, we know practically nothing about their society, they may have some sort of religion, or spiritual belief that we know nothing about.



Narim's reaction might also indicate that the Tollans' enlightenment has come only in the past few generations.

I imagine early European converts to Christianity still halfway expected when they died to be ferried to Hades on Charon's boat, flown to Valhalla by a Valkyrie, or whatever the local pagan afterlife myth was, until the tradition of such beliefs disappeared. It probably took the early Protestants a couple generations to lose their fear of Catholic anathemas and excommunications as they relied on "grace" to take care of their fate in the afterlife.

In the context of the "Enigma" episode, however, Narim really did see an attractive woman come to his rescue while he was facing mortal peril and had no reason to expect any human to show up in that capacity. Thinking she might have been some sort of angelic being was not completely irrational considering the circumstances. When the human brain is faced with unfamiliar or unexpected information, it tries to find some pattern in its memory to interpret it. Under duress it can quite easily arrive at a wrong interpretation.

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Old Post 06-07-2002 03:44 AM
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shiloh
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When facing death people will cling to whatever threads give 'hope'. I know of no death-bed conversions to a religion the person was never involved with earlier in their lives.

BTW, and this is way late, welcome to the boards, AA. It's good to see another californian here. It's kinda embarrasing that there are a grand total of 3 of us.

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Old Post 06-07-2002 06:01 AM
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nug
Melon

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Location: Sydney
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quote:
In the context of the "Enigma" episode, however, Narim really did see an attractive woman come to his rescue while he was facing mortal peril and had no reason to expect any human to show up in that capacity. Thinking she might have been some sort of angelic being was not completely irrational considering the circumstances.

You know what. It could have just been a come on line and we're reading way too far into it

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Old Post 06-08-2002 02:36 AM
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Wingless Flyer
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The trick to it is being strong enough in the mind not to fall into the religious 'trap'. You are more likely to take the easy way out (god) if you are scared or near death...

I like the message that SG1 spreads, we need more like it to help us ease away from religion...

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Old Post 06-08-2002 05:06 AM
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president doc
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Oh right, wasnt reading this thing properly, from what I remember of that episode, he said something like...
"our past ancestors used to believe in angels.... thought you were one of em darlin "

So yeah, that was definitely a blatent come on!

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Old Post 06-08-2002 09:56 AM
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Venus
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Well, I'm sure she kinda stuttered and smiled and stuff...

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Old Post 06-08-2002 10:22 AM
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Bose-Einstein
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quote:
Originally posted by Venus
Well, I'm sure she kinda stuttered and smiled and stuff...
*Scribbles notes*

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Old Post 06-08-2002 11:51 AM
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nug
Melon

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Sydney
Posts: 911

well it did work didn't it...did he or did he not get to first base
Or is that second. I don't understand american euphemisms

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Old Post 06-08-2002 12:00 PM
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Bose-Einstein
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*adds to notes - nug also agrees*

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Old Post 06-08-2002 01:03 PM
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