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missile
i said peanuts

Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Leeds, England
Posts: 277

P90 surpressors

i was thinking that SGC personnel are supposed to be covert right?? yet SG1 is running around with these P90's which you could hear 20miles away so i was wondering WHY DONT THEY INSTALL SILENCERS ON THEIR P90's



like this!!!


Hammond said that the SGC cost $7.4bn dollars a year to run im guessing by now the cost might be in the region of $15bn, and yet they cannt be bothered to buy some silencers for their guns!!!

wat ya fink?

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Old Post 11-28-2002 11:53 AM
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president doc
Moderator

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: London.
Posts: 6137

Why would the costs be even higher? a lot of the capital is there, its just extra stuff to buy, or maintain etc.



Anyway, by the time SG1 are using weapons, being covert isnt their main concern, after all its not like they have to be quiet when the hordes of red shirted Jaffa run towards them single file.

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Old Post 11-28-2002 11:57 AM
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missile
i said peanuts

Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Leeds, England
Posts: 277

they used them in Thors Charriot but never again

i was just wondering why??

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Old Post 11-28-2002 11:58 AM
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president doc
Moderator

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: London.
Posts: 6137

They reduce performance and I guess they already have Zats for "stealth", but most of the time they get into firefights, I assume they dont need stealth.


When they do need to use a rifle to assasinate, or if they do need stealth, Im sure theyed all reach into their pockets or Jonas's rucksack and pull some silencers out


Thors Chariot....wasnt that and early season? Im sure they only started using P90's at the end of season 4.

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Old Post 11-28-2002 12:13 PM
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missile
i said peanuts

Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Leeds, England
Posts: 277

or some other magical item

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Old Post 11-28-2002 12:15 PM
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Deathbunny
"Mostly Harmless."

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Posts: 1416

In order to be really effective, a suppressor must be used with subsonic ammunition...

...Which reduces both the effective range and penetration of the weapon (Unless you're firing .45ACP which is already subsonic.)

Also, most add-on suppressors degrade the accuracy of the weapon and burn out quickly under automatic fire, let alone posing a danger if it's can or baffling obstruct the bullet and the bullet dumps its energy into trying to remove the suppressor...

So...

For the use they were intended (quieting single, aimed shots or a series of short bursts close to other enemy forces that aren't alerted yet...), they're fine. For general issue, they aren't practical.

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Old Post 11-29-2002 02:29 AM
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Duke Enmes?rr
Renegade Serpent Guard!

Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Where you find me.
Posts: 143

Yeah the silencer on any gun dose hamper the stopping power of the bullet. AT the price of power u get the hit!

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Old Post 11-29-2002 05:18 AM
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Lord ?okar
Supreme System Lord

Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Necropolis
Posts: 621

I was just waiting for Deathbunny to come and clear this threa up .

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Old Post 11-29-2002 06:06 AM
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dr.taz
Apple Sauce Bitch!

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: Camped out in front of the telly
Posts: 747

isn't there already an sg team for covert ops? and sg-1 use zats as more effective stealth weapons.

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Old Post 11-29-2002 07:48 AM
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missile
i said peanuts

Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Leeds, England
Posts: 277

cheers Deathbunny *thumbs up*

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Old Post 11-30-2002 12:42 PM
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Deathbunny
"Mostly Harmless."

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Posts: 1416

Should the fact I know all this stuff worry me?

*smirk*

FN's US site has data on the standard and subsonic rounds in case anyone's interested...

www.fnmfg.com

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- Deathbunny

"Truth requires no belief and Belief requires no truth."

"Our actions support our beliefs, but without our beliefs, we have no justification for our actions." - J. Wheeler

"Everything has its own place and function. That applies to people, although many don't seem to realize it, stuck as they are in the wrong job, the wrong marriage, or the wrong house. When you know and respect your Inner Nature, you know where you belong. You also know where you don't belong." -From "The Tao of Pooh"

You too can be *NUKED*! Ask me How!

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Old Post 12-02-2002 05:16 AM
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Rhydderch Hael
The Radiation King

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: On station at a distant underground nuclear missile silo...
Posts: 1816

Try using a silencer in a hermetically sealed atmosphere, like a spaceship...

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Old Post 12-02-2002 05:42 AM
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Deathbunny
"Mostly Harmless."

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Posts: 1416

OK...

A supressor slows and controls the expansion of the gases produced by the propellent, reducing their velocity and dissipating their energy against the gases and the elements of the suppressor.

A hermetically sealed spacecraft would either be over or under the standard pressure (which might either increase or decrease the suppressor's efficiency while either increasing or decreasing the risk of a catastrophic failure of the supressor/weapon or decreasing it...)

Air, unlike most hydraulic systems like water and oil, has quite a lot of compressability depending on the starting pressure and the displacement of the airmass/room/chamber.

So...

In a small, overpressured room you'll probably get a mosr effective sound suppressor by a tiny bit as the increased friction/resistance of the denser air retards the bullet's velocity and the gases while risking increased pressures inside the weapon.

With the P90 being a spring-resisted blowback design, you might risk harder wear, an increased rate of fire, potentially more severe recoil, and possibly a catastrophic failure of the recoil springs.

In a larger displacement area, the compressability of the air would probably mitigate most of the pressure problems, possibly only increasing the effectiveness of the suppressor (as listed) and maybe a little more wear and tear.

In a larger lower pressure area, the report would probably be louder because the decreased resistance on the bullet decreases the amount of time availible for the exhaust gases to be diverted into the suppressor and then slowed resulting in the gases escaping faster than normal situations permit.

Muzzle velocities would also be higher in the less dense air, potentially allowing a high subsonic round to slip out a bit faster and make a nice sonic crack...

After the shooting, in a close-in space (assuming all this time that it's not a high O2 environment that caught afire when you started shooting...), yuo'll have to deal with some of the bi=products of the propellents in the air (Carbon-compounds, sulphur compounds, others...) until whatever cleans the air does.

(As long as it isn't some of the cheap AK rounds that smell like sh**... *smirk*)

__________________
- Deathbunny

"Truth requires no belief and Belief requires no truth."

"Our actions support our beliefs, but without our beliefs, we have no justification for our actions." - J. Wheeler

"Everything has its own place and function. That applies to people, although many don't seem to realize it, stuck as they are in the wrong job, the wrong marriage, or the wrong house. When you know and respect your Inner Nature, you know where you belong. You also know where you don't belong." -From "The Tao of Pooh"

You too can be *NUKED*! Ask me How!

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Old Post 12-02-2002 05:42 PM
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Deathbunny
"Mostly Harmless."

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Posts: 1416

Don't mean to double post...

Just saw something earlier...

Most military MP5's use a muzzle fixture that is readily usable with a sound suppressor and subsonic rounds are availible and function pretty well in them, so I've read and been told.

The Berretta, however, requires a different barrel to be installed (easily done in the field if the barrel/locking piece is on hand) and either a recoil-boosting type of suppressor to deal with lower powered subsonic rounds, higher pressure subsonic rounds, or it becomes a single shot repeater that needs the slide cycled manually.

Add into the mix that, compared to many other designs, the Berretta is inherently a weaker design when it comes to handling recoil forces or out-of-initial specifications chamber pressures and you see why the US military developed a different pistol (The Mk 23 Mod 0 OHWS) for use when a suppressed pistol is a primary need...

Not only is the Mk 23 in .45 ACP (an already subsonic round), but it comes with a suppressor that can be set in one of six ways to offset it's disturbance of the bullets trajectory and is on a seriously overbuilt pistol...

The P90 from the table here:

http://www.fnmfg.com/lawenf/ss190/ss190.htm

Subsonic P90 rounds drop the quoted effective range from 200m to 50m...

__________________
- Deathbunny

"Truth requires no belief and Belief requires no truth."

"Our actions support our beliefs, but without our beliefs, we have no justification for our actions." - J. Wheeler

"Everything has its own place and function. That applies to people, although many don't seem to realize it, stuck as they are in the wrong job, the wrong marriage, or the wrong house. When you know and respect your Inner Nature, you know where you belong. You also know where you don't belong." -From "The Tao of Pooh"

You too can be *NUKED*! Ask me How!

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Old Post 12-02-2002 06:08 PM
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DaveB
Junior Member

Registered: Nov 2002
Location:
Posts: 15

Here's my P90 http://www.teamkgb.co.uk/kit/p901.jpg

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Old Post 12-03-2002 11:35 AM
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