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Venus
Status: Freezing cold

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: England Elvenname: Ainari?l Telr?nya
Posts: 6157

What makes you think Apophis was never a System Lord??

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Old Post 10-22-2002 10:17 AM
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Lord ?okar
Supreme System Lord

Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Necropolis
Posts: 621

He was the mortal enemy of Cronus and Ra. Two succesive supreme system lords and it has been shown quite plainly that the Supreme lord holds sway to an extent over the others. They would never have allowed him to be voted in or admitted to meetings.

What makes you think that he was?

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Old Post 10-23-2002 06:11 AM
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Venus
Status: Freezing cold

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: England Elvenname: Ainari?l Telr?nya
Posts: 6157

All System Lords are each others mortal enemies, as proven in Summit. Cronos and Ra no doubt hated each other as much as they did Apophis. At least at one point (aftermath of TDYK/JM) Apophis was powerful enough to rival any System Lord (as shown by Tok'ra in Serpents Venom). I thought what made a System Lord was power, that they match other System Lords, and Apophis certainly had that.

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Old Post 10-23-2002 10:37 AM
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Lord ?okar
Supreme System Lord

Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Necropolis
Posts: 621

That was no way proved in Summit. If anything it disporved that notion. Kali and Bastet were friends. Mortal enemies do not forfeit their weapons to a room full of other mortal enemies because mortal enemies are sure to kill you weapons or not. Mortal enemies do not become allies no matter what. If they all were mortal enemies, the System Lord organisation could not exist.

You are made a system lord when the others vote you in. Anubis was easily the most powerful Goa'uld in the sector but it still required the majority of the vote to reinstate him, should the majority have ruled otherwise, he would be just a goa'uld, the most powerful but still not a system lord.

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Old Post 10-25-2002 07:00 AM
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Venus
Status: Freezing cold

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: England Elvenname: Ainari?l Telr?nya
Posts: 6157

How is it not proved in Summit? Yu stands around warning Daniel about how the Goa'uld backstab each other (including one story about how a "gift" turned out to be a bomb or something??). They may be allied, but only if it benefits them. The meet in Summit showed that they will unite against a higher threat. This was mentioned in a previous ep as well - who was it said that the SL's are feudal in nature, they will fight pettily among themselves but unite against a greater threat.

I'm not convinced that Kali and Bastet were friends, they may just have had the same interests at heart. If (for example) a bomb was discovered and there was 60 seconds to get off the station, do you seriously think some SL's would help others, or they'd just think about saving themselves? I think the latter.

Do you have any quotes from eps to back up your voted-in thing?

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Old Post 10-25-2002 01:17 PM
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Lord ?okar
Supreme System Lord

Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Necropolis
Posts: 621

Do you think that most humans would help others or think about saving themselves? We're not all mortal enemies. All I was trying to say was that all System Lords are not mortal enemies. It was proven in Summit where they all got in the same room and had chats. Mortal emenies can't do that for fear of getting killed. Sokar was powerful enough to defeat ALL the System Lords at once and he was not one. No matter how much power you have you still have to have the vote in your favour to become one and since the SSL has great presence, any goa'uld that they do not favour is not going to get in. Yes they will unite against higher threats, but that is because they are not mortal enemies and can do that sort of thing.

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Old Post 10-26-2002 11:14 AM
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Bose-Einstein
The 3rd Libra

Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 3403

Aren't System Lords those that are Lord over a System? That would seem a logical definition to me.

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Old Post 10-26-2002 12:18 PM
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Venus
Status: Freezing cold

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: England Elvenname: Ainari?l Telr?nya
Posts: 6157

Yes, I do think humans would save each other. It's seen all the time on SG1 (don't leave men behind) and a few cases in RL I've heard of, but don't really care to list any. IMO, the SL's were only there to unite against a greater threat, because they would be better off if this greater threat was 'stopped'. And there was plenty of distrust; if they all trusted each other, they wouldn't have done it on neutral ground, and not allowed weapons etc.

So, I guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree then.

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Old Post 10-26-2002 12:22 PM
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Lord ?okar
Supreme System Lord

Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Necropolis
Posts: 621

Righty-o.

System Lord is just a rank, the top, but to become one you have to have power to impress the other members, so you will have to be lord over a system (or a couple).

Hey Bose, signatures are easy, go for the chorus of a song or a quote.

U like mine ?

Last edited by Lord ?okar on 10-26-2002 at 11:54 PM

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Old Post 10-26-2002 11:51 PM
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Venus
Status: Freezing cold

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: England Elvenname: Ainari?l Telr?nya
Posts: 6157

Did you think Apophis, in Exodus was a SL? You think the other SL's would let him get that powerful?

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Old Post 10-28-2002 10:17 AM
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Lord ?okar
Supreme System Lord

Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Necropolis
Posts: 621

I think he was never a SL. Never. Status relies on power but power does not ensure status. Take sokar per eg, he was easily powerful enough to destroy ALL the system lords at once(something Apophis and Anubis were never able to do) and he was not an SL.

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Old Post 10-28-2002 09:38 PM
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Jaffa, Kree!
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Registered: Oct 2001
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Posts: 2928

i was under the impression that the summit was held to vote him into the rank of SL. so had it all gone ahead, he WOULD be,

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Old Post 10-29-2002 02:03 AM
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Lord ?okar
Supreme System Lord

Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Necropolis
Posts: 621

The Summit was held to discuss the unseen agressor. The agressor (Anubis) crashed the party and bent it towards getting him reinstated. If Osiris hadn't stabbed Yu he would be one.

We are talking about Apophis though.

As far as we know, Apophis never attended a Summit. I suggest Apophis was never actually a System Lord in any way. Just a powerful Goa'uld. I believe this because:

Cronus and Ra, both alive for the duration of Apophis' life, hated him dearly. Both succesive Supreme System Lords, who have power over the others. They vote the way the SSL wants, or he/she kills them. This noted, it would be impossible for Apophis to become a SL because the SSL would not let him.

It was put forward that "System Lord" is simply based on one's power within the Empire. Not so: Anubis, not an SL. Sokar not an SL(and he had enough power to destroy and assimilate the entire System Lord empire AT ONCE). Apophis? Most certainly not an SL. Just a powerful Goa'uld.

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Old Post 10-29-2002 04:42 AM
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_.:?nubis:._
Man of less sorrow

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: Apologising to all the members who i called idiots.
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The definition of what a system lord really is, has become variable, some think it reallies on power, others, who u know, i would put forth that a system lord is someone who is voted in by the entirety of the current system lords, by the by, anubis is a system lord and thefore when he attacked the Tau'ri the other system lords were obligated to attack him according to the system lord/az'gard treaty which means all the sls should have attacked him, not just Lord Yu

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Last edited by _.:?nubis:._ on 10-29-2002 at 06:19 AM

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Old Post 10-29-2002 05:04 AM
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Lord ?okar
Supreme System Lord

Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Necropolis
Posts: 621

quote:
other system lords were obligated to attack him according to the system lord/az'gard treaty which means all the sls should have attacked him, not just Lord Yu
So, what are you getting at?

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Old Post 10-29-2002 06:18 AM
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