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missile
i said peanuts

Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Leeds, England
Posts: 277

Iraq

As you all know Pres Bush and his buddy, our prime minister Tony are gearing up to attack Iraq, wepons inspectors will be in next week, so now that Iraq has agreed to inspections should we attack ? i would like to raise some questiond before you answer

From what i have read Iraq is trying to get wepons grade uranium from Africa. well if he can then its very easy to track where it came from and we can then nail him IF he can get it though

Second the UN Security council needs to give the go ahead for war but Kofi Anan wants diplomatic progress Russia wants money from the US if it agrees China is the same as Russia which leaves those French idiots they want peace at via diplomacy

Thirdly the region is already unstably if you want to stop crazy men with nucular power direct your focus on Ariel Sharon MP of Isreal, he's trigger happy hypocrite.

Fourth biological wepons are more deadly that nuclear wepons, imagine if he designed a virus which would only attack people with white skin ?

Finally this is what i think we should do. its gona take Saddam a few years to get a nuke, first he's got to test it then he's to get more material to make another which will take a few more years then he's got to develop a MISSILE that can carry it. he's only got a few missiles which can bearly reach Isreal by this time a lot can happen i wouldn be supprised if a civil war broke out.

i am opposed to war but would consider if Bush and Blair gave real solid evidence that Saddams nuclear programme is near completion until then only Saddam, Bush, Blair and a few kronnies in the WhiteHouse and 10 Downing Street know the truth

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Old Post 10-02-2002 12:54 PM
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Kamakazi Casper
Baaaa. Down Sheeba.

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Out keeping the fish in the liffy well fed
Posts: 3588

There was another thread on this recently (here) if you're interested.

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Old Post 10-02-2002 01:02 PM
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Venus
Status: Freezing cold

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: England Elvenname: Ainari?l Telr?nya
Posts: 6157

Wow, interesting thread you linked KC, hadn't seen it before. Not that I have a clue what's going on in the real world.

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Old Post 10-02-2002 01:15 PM
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president doc
Moderator

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: London.
Posts: 6137

I believe that there is a specific set of circumstances and criteria which if met means that the need to act exists.

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Old Post 10-02-2002 01:43 PM
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Bose-Einstein
The 3rd Libra

Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 3403

Not a single shot should be fired, nor a single troop deployed *until* Saddam acts up. Then, and only then, they should bomb his *military* facilities for 24hrs and then demand readmittance of inspectors. If he does not agree, bomb him for another 24hrs, and ask again. Etc. And all, only with the support of the UN.

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Old Post 10-02-2002 05:23 PM
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Deathbunny
"Mostly Harmless."

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Posts: 1416

quote:
Originally posted by Bose-Einstein
Not a single shot should be fired, nor a single troop deployed *until* Saddam acts up. Then, and only then, they should bomb his *military* facilities for 24hrs and then demand readmittance of inspectors. If he does not agree, bomb him for another 24hrs, and ask again. Etc. And all, only with the support of the UN.


Wishful thinking, BTW.

The problems:

- Most "acting up" takes the form of surprise attacks. Surprise attacks with WMD's... will probably be worse than the WTC bombings. F*** that!

-Deployments, even by air, take a lead up time more than it would for Iraq to make it miserable. The US deployments in the last Persian Gulf war were an anomaly and had the potential for some seriously bad news.

- Most military facilities, especially in Iraq, if he follows what happened last time, are intentionally co-located with civilian targets (like the "milk factory" that got waxed last war) or are dual use like power supplies and communication nodes. Also of note is what the Chechnyans did with their cellular phone network in Grozny. Beyond communication, they could also be used to detect low-observable or stealthy aircraft.

- Saddam has historically used "hostages", both captured enemy and his own civilians to try and shield his military assets from the enemy.

In an ideal world, your ideas would be great, Bose, it's just not practicable in the real world.

Sorry man, doesn't work that way.

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Old Post 10-02-2002 06:37 PM
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Crackerz
Ambassador of XeroX

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: XeroX
Posts: 362

I think its an unanswerable situation. I'm sure glad I'm not making the decisions coz there's a lotta lives depending on it.

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Old Post 10-02-2002 07:23 PM
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Bose-Einstein
The 3rd Libra

Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 3403

quote:
Originally posted by Deathbunny
In an ideal world, your ideas would be great, Bose, it's just not practicable in the real world.

Sorry man, doesn't work that way.

I realise there are problems, but I am simply saying that if so far he has co-operated (this time) with the UN, if America was to attack now and then once again in six months time ask "Why does the Arab/Muslim world hate us?"... - Damnit, yes, I know that he (Saddam) has been an ass in the future, but this situation must be solved properly. If he is seen to be "playing ball" then America and Britain must also. If he acts up, then we have mandate to use force, though I would much rather it was a more "Neutral" state like Germany or Italy that carried out the use of force, and again, only with UN backing. If Saddam defies the UN and the UN will not do anything about it, then yes, I will rethink my views and perhaps support direct military intervention, but for the time being it is sooo not justified. If GWB spent $1 on aid to Afghanistan, ensuring medical supplies reach the Iraqi people, and actually helping in the Arab world for every $50 he spends on bombs and missiles, or condemning Israel half as often as he condemns other "terrorists" then the problem of Al-Qaeda and other militant Islamic groups probably wouldn't exist. I think I'm gonna bow out of this thread cause it's a subject I can't really debate without getting overheated. However, as is said, that's my 2 cents.

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Old Post 10-02-2002 07:42 PM
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Jaffa, Kree!
Moderator

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 2928

so the US are intent on blowing up Iraq no matter what suddam does or says to try and placate them. sure he may be lying, but it's just making the US and its allies (including us) look like bullies. He can walk right into the CIA HQ naked with his hands above his head, and i'm sure the US would still shoot him on the spot, then continue to threaten Iraq because *gasp* someone has risen to fill his place.

I dont care about the implications anymore. Just bomb the bastard and get it over and done with. Dont try and convince us that you're so ****ing high and mighty, america, and dont involve us in your little ego-game.

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Old Post 10-03-2002 02:46 AM
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guessed
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: melbourne, australia
Posts: 494

calm down girl... it'll sort itself out in the end...

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Old Post 10-03-2002 02:48 AM
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Otis
Egyptaholic

Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 737

"(Saddam) has been an ass in the future"
Huh?

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Old Post 10-03-2002 03:03 AM
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Rithmah
Got Vespa?

Registered: Aug 2002
Location: On the potak taking a shitak in the peltak with Selmak on Delmak
Posts: 641

I wouldn't call what Saddam has being doing "cooperating." He has refused weapons inspectors numerous times, and in my opinion, to the end to show his people and the world that he's in charge and has the power to accept or deny the terms of the "powerful" UN and the United States.

He just recently had his ambassador give the okay to the UN that Iraq is ready to have the weapons inspectors come in... they must have put that camo netting up pretty fast....

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Old Post 10-03-2002 03:37 AM
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Jaffa, Kree!
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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 2928

guessed - maybe, but at what cost to freedom and independance from america..? (me cares little about how things are in the middle east afterwards, but more about the global economy and political structure)

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Old Post 10-03-2002 03:50 AM
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Kaijyu
Num Num, Birdy Num Num!!!

Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Northern Hemisphere
Posts: 206

The Empire Strikes Back!

Coming soon to a TV near you!

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Old Post 10-03-2002 05:01 AM
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guessed
Senior Member

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: melbourne, australia
Posts: 494

jk - yes i FULLY agree with you, but no point us getting upset =)

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Old Post 10-03-2002 06:26 AM
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