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320rwekfpl
Evil Incarnated

Registered: Jul 2002
Location: In the woods(and playing banjo)
Posts: 217

The question still stands. How can one queens symbiote carry other queens symbiotes memories after they've been split from the genetic line for far more time than the Tok'ra has been split from the Goa'uld? It just doesn't make sense... Please give me a possible answer at least...

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Old Post 12-18-2002 06:17 AM
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Excalibur
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Registered: Dec 2002
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Jaffa are not born automatic Jaffa. They have to go through a ritual to become capable to carry a symbiote

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Old Post 12-18-2002 07:24 AM
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Venus
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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: England Elvenname: Ainari?l Telr?nya
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Anubis - I'm not sure about the spelling, but I'm having so much trouble with my net connection recently, I'm not gonna risk it to correct a minor typo.

Sokar - I kinda got the impresison that he used to be a Jaffa, but was taken over by his symbiote. Not got any evidence for that though.

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Old Post 12-18-2002 09:17 PM
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Lord ?okar
Supreme System Lord

Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Necropolis
Posts: 621

Jaffa are not born automatic Jaffa. They have to go through a ritual to become capable to carry a symbiote
When they are born they have their pouch already, it is now genetic. The ceremony of Primta is where they stick in the snake.

I'm not gonna risk it to correct a minor typo.
What have you done with Venus? lol

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Old Post 12-18-2002 09:34 PM
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dr.taz
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Registered: Sep 2002
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320, when was that shown on the show?

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Old Post 12-18-2002 11:37 PM
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Excalibur
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Registered: Dec 2002
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If they were born automatic Jaffa with pouches, then they would need a symbiote from birth! Because with out a symbiote Jaffas don't have immune systems. In "Bloodlines" (ep. #1.12) Teal'c want's to get back to his home before Rya'c is made into a Jaffa. He get's there just after the priests have put Rya'c through the ceremony that robbed him of his immune system and gave him a pouch to carry a symbiote. That is when Teal'c has to give his symbiote to his son to save his life.

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Old Post 12-19-2002 12:32 AM
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Jaffa, Kree!
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I was going to say the same thing as Excalibar here...


Instead, anotehr reason: they wouldn't be Jaffa from birth unless it was closed mating community, otherwise mixed blood would destroy the pouch-from-birth genetic trait. Its also too much of a risk to have to rely on this way of obtaining hosts. So much simpler to knock the immune system out of a passing slave.

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Old Post 12-19-2002 01:18 AM
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Lord ?okar
Supreme System Lord

Registered: Aug 2002
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If they were born automatic Jaffa with pouches, then they would need a symbiote from birth! Because with out a symbiote Jaffas don't have immune systems
If they weren't born jaffa, then a queen with that stomach thing would have to pouch every single one of them. Theres no way they could consistently pouch each genaration.

In "Bloodlines" (ep. #1.12) Teal'c want's to get back to his home before Rya'c is made into a Jaffa.
No doubt being genetic, the lack of immunity kicks in only at a certain age otherwise all jaffa would die at birth.

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Old Post 12-19-2002 01:25 AM
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Excalibur
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Are you watching the same Stargate series I am? The pouches are created, they are not just there. When the device, which the priests have, is used to make the pouch, that is when they become dependent on a symbiote to replace the immune system. Teal'c wanted to save his son from a lifetime of dependence by taking him away before this "right of passage" was preformed on him, making him a Jaffa.

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Old Post 12-19-2002 01:50 AM
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Lord ?okar
Supreme System Lord

Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Necropolis
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Apparently not, otherwise your theories would be correct.

The pouches are created,
By a queen's stomach device. ONCE. The it does not need to be created in every generation. It has been said in as many episodes that are about Jaffa that they are a species, and not in the sense that they like to call themselves a different species to humans, but in that manner that they are genetically altered humans, the GM GIVES THEM THEIR DEPENDANCY. OTHERWISE, IF THEY RAN AWAY THEY'D NEVER GET IT. The point of the Jaffa-ness is so they CANNOT run away.

No matter how much your opinions happen to appeal to you, you cannot ignore logic (no matter how hardyou try). If they weren't born jaffa, then a queen with that stomach thing would have to pouch every single one of them. Theres no way they could consistently pouch each genaration.

right of passage
RITE of passage.

making him a Jaffa.
He was always a Jaffa, that's why (quote) "Your human drugs will not work on him."

Last edited by Lord ?okar on 12-19-2002 at 05:29 AM

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Old Post 12-19-2002 05:27 AM
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Excalibur
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Logic? I haven't missed an episode and I have never seen any evidence to support your "opinions" or should I say interpretations. The queen is not the only one who can make a Jaffa. Again, Teal'c wanted to go back to get Rya'c because he was at the age where he would be "made into" a Jaffa. Like many other planets Chulac is nothing more then humans that were brought through the gate from earth. Those who are worthy to become Jaffa's go through the ritual, recieve a pouch, and then are given a larva Goa'uld, which without they would die.

The reason the "human drugs" would not work was because Rya'c had been through the ritual, had recieved his pouch, but had not recieved a symbiote because when Teal'c attacked the priests the symbiote was killed. Because Rya'c had been given a pouch but had not been implanted with a symbiote, he no longer had a immune system and he was dying.

Remember, because Teal'c was an outcast so was his family. Drey'auc had to beg the priests to let Rya'c go through the ritual. If as you say, they are already Jaffa, and would die after a certian age without a larva Goa'uld, then explain why Teal'c would want to stop the implantation of a symbiote? This would effecticly kill his son! Where is your logic now?

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Old Post 12-19-2002 07:50 AM
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Lord Yu
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Registered: Dec 2002
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So with the hiding thing, Surely at least one of the system lords would have discovered that Anubis was alive.

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Old Post 12-19-2002 09:27 AM
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president doc
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Registered: Oct 2001
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The pouches are created, the episode where Ryac recieves a symbionte heavily hints at this.

They can be classified as a new species once this happens, perhaps whilst they recieve their pouch, certain genetic changes are enacted through the body like gene therapy on a hyped up scale, this would explain how the immune system suddenly dissapears, and would account for physical changes that need to perform the role of a Jaffa.

eg I was born human, but lets say my conciousness was implanted into a robot, does that mean im still human?
What one was before doesnt mean that one cant be another species later, whether its as obvious as human to robot or human to Jaffa.

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Old Post 12-19-2002 09:33 AM
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Lord Yu
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Thats a great philosophy president doc.

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Old Post 12-19-2002 09:37 AM
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320rwekfpl
Evil Incarnated

Registered: Jul 2002
Location: In the woods(and playing banjo)
Posts: 217

quote:
Originally posted by dr.taz
320, when was that shown on the show?


Every episode there's a Goa'uld in... No, really... The Tok'ra queen split 2000-3000 years ago. A majority of the System Lords hasn't gotten along for at least 5000 years... Just a perfect scenario for them getting together and make new snakes is it? So it's just implied nothing else... Think of it... If all your children got all your knowledge when they were born, would you risk strategical information by going to bed with your mortal enemy? So anything except a diversion of the genetic main line doesn't make any sense what-so-ever and should be considered a plot hole, just like the sudden all over the world appearance of hand-device shields...

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Old Post 12-19-2002 10:18 AM
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