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Posted by missile on 10-02-2002 12:54 PM:

Iraq

As you all know Pres Bush and his buddy, our prime minister Tony are gearing up to attack Iraq, wepons inspectors will be in next week, so now that Iraq has agreed to inspections should we attack ? i would like to raise some questiond before you answer

From what i have read Iraq is trying to get wepons grade uranium from Africa. well if he can then its very easy to track where it came from and we can then nail him IF he can get it though

Second the UN Security council needs to give the go ahead for war but Kofi Anan wants diplomatic progress Russia wants money from the US if it agrees China is the same as Russia which leaves those French idiots they want peace at via diplomacy

Thirdly the region is already unstably if you want to stop crazy men with nucular power direct your focus on Ariel Sharon MP of Isreal, he's trigger happy hypocrite.

Fourth biological wepons are more deadly that nuclear wepons, imagine if he designed a virus which would only attack people with white skin ?

Finally this is what i think we should do. its gona take Saddam a few years to get a nuke, first he's got to test it then he's to get more material to make another which will take a few more years then he's got to develop a MISSILE that can carry it. he's only got a few missiles which can bearly reach Isreal by this time a lot can happen i wouldn be supprised if a civil war broke out.

i am opposed to war but would consider if Bush and Blair gave real solid evidence that Saddams nuclear programme is near completion until then only Saddam, Bush, Blair and a few kronnies in the WhiteHouse and 10 Downing Street know the truth


Posted by Kamakazi Casper on 10-02-2002 01:02 PM:

There was another thread on this recently (here) if you're interested.

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She hitched a ride to misery


Posted by Venus on 10-02-2002 01:15 PM:

Wow, interesting thread you linked KC, hadn't seen it before. Not that I have a clue what's going on in the real world.

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Posted by president doc on 10-02-2002 01:43 PM:

I believe that there is a specific set of circumstances and criteria which if met means that the need to act exists.

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Posted by Bose-Einstein on 10-02-2002 05:23 PM:

Not a single shot should be fired, nor a single troop deployed *until* Saddam acts up. Then, and only then, they should bomb his *military* facilities for 24hrs and then demand readmittance of inspectors. If he does not agree, bomb him for another 24hrs, and ask again. Etc. And all, only with the support of the UN.

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Posted by Deathbunny on 10-02-2002 06:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bose-Einstein
Not a single shot should be fired, nor a single troop deployed *until* Saddam acts up. Then, and only then, they should bomb his *military* facilities for 24hrs and then demand readmittance of inspectors. If he does not agree, bomb him for another 24hrs, and ask again. Etc. And all, only with the support of the UN.


Wishful thinking, BTW.

The problems:

- Most "acting up" takes the form of surprise attacks. Surprise attacks with WMD's... will probably be worse than the WTC bombings. F*** that!

-Deployments, even by air, take a lead up time more than it would for Iraq to make it miserable. The US deployments in the last Persian Gulf war were an anomaly and had the potential for some seriously bad news.

- Most military facilities, especially in Iraq, if he follows what happened last time, are intentionally co-located with civilian targets (like the "milk factory" that got waxed last war) or are dual use like power supplies and communication nodes. Also of note is what the Chechnyans did with their cellular phone network in Grozny. Beyond communication, they could also be used to detect low-observable or stealthy aircraft.

- Saddam has historically used "hostages", both captured enemy and his own civilians to try and shield his military assets from the enemy.

In an ideal world, your ideas would be great, Bose, it's just not practicable in the real world.

Sorry man, doesn't work that way.

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"Our actions support our beliefs, but without our beliefs, we have no justification for our actions." - J. Wheeler

"Everything has its own place and function. That applies to people, although many don't seem to realize it, stuck as they are in the wrong job, the wrong marriage, or the wrong house. When you know and respect your Inner Nature, you know where you belong. You also know where you don't belong." -From "The Tao of Pooh"

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Posted by Crackerz on 10-02-2002 07:23 PM:

I think its an unanswerable situation. I'm sure glad I'm not making the decisions coz there's a lotta lives depending on it.

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Posted by Bose-Einstein on 10-02-2002 07:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Deathbunny
In an ideal world, your ideas would be great, Bose, it's just not practicable in the real world.

Sorry man, doesn't work that way.

I realise there are problems, but I am simply saying that if so far he has co-operated (this time) with the UN, if America was to attack now and then once again in six months time ask "Why does the Arab/Muslim world hate us?"... - Damnit, yes, I know that he (Saddam) has been an ass in the future, but this situation must be solved properly. If he is seen to be "playing ball" then America and Britain must also. If he acts up, then we have mandate to use force, though I would much rather it was a more "Neutral" state like Germany or Italy that carried out the use of force, and again, only with UN backing. If Saddam defies the UN and the UN will not do anything about it, then yes, I will rethink my views and perhaps support direct military intervention, but for the time being it is sooo not justified. If GWB spent $1 on aid to Afghanistan, ensuring medical supplies reach the Iraqi people, and actually helping in the Arab world for every $50 he spends on bombs and missiles, or condemning Israel half as often as he condemns other "terrorists" then the problem of Al-Qaeda and other militant Islamic groups probably wouldn't exist. I think I'm gonna bow out of this thread cause it's a subject I can't really debate without getting overheated. However, as is said, that's my 2 cents.

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Posted by Jaffa, Kree! on 10-03-2002 02:46 AM:

so the US are intent on blowing up Iraq no matter what suddam does or says to try and placate them. sure he may be lying, but it's just making the US and its allies (including us) look like bullies. He can walk right into the CIA HQ naked with his hands above his head, and i'm sure the US would still shoot him on the spot, then continue to threaten Iraq because *gasp* someone has risen to fill his place.

I dont care about the implications anymore. Just bomb the bastard and get it over and done with. Dont try and convince us that you're so ****ing high and mighty, america, and dont involve us in your little ego-game.

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Posted by guessed on 10-03-2002 02:48 AM:

calm down girl... it'll sort itself out in the end...

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pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate


Posted by Otis on 10-03-2002 03:03 AM:

"(Saddam) has been an ass in the future"
Huh?


Posted by Rithmah on 10-03-2002 03:37 AM:

I wouldn't call what Saddam has being doing "cooperating." He has refused weapons inspectors numerous times, and in my opinion, to the end to show his people and the world that he's in charge and has the power to accept or deny the terms of the "powerful" UN and the United States.

He just recently had his ambassador give the okay to the UN that Iraq is ready to have the weapons inspectors come in... they must have put that camo netting up pretty fast....

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Posted by Jaffa, Kree! on 10-03-2002 03:50 AM:

guessed - maybe, but at what cost to freedom and independance from america..? (me cares little about how things are in the middle east afterwards, but more about the global economy and political structure)

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Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.


Posted by Kaijyu on 10-03-2002 05:01 AM:

The Empire Strikes Back!

Coming soon to a TV near you!

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Posted by guessed on 10-03-2002 06:26 AM:

jk - yes i FULLY agree with you, but no point us getting upset =)

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